Can Altruism Help You Live Longer?

NICOLE: The research over the last several years shows that volunteering makes you healthier, and it can definitely extend your lifespan.

NICOLE/BRENT
So I thought, that's great. As people are retiring and looking for more things to do, regular volunteering will definitely help you.

Welcome back. I am your host, Brent. Today we speak with a journalist about altruism. Nicole just released a book, Your Brain on Altruism.

BRENT: The power of connection and community during times of crisis. This is a really good episode because there's a lot of research that supports altruism and acts of service improving our longevity, helping us have better and longer lives. But I don't think we typically think of them in the same category as taking a statin to reduce our cholesterol or getting a full body scan to spot some issue early.

BRENT: But it definitely is in the same category, and it might be even more in the longevity category than some of these other things. So many of the longevity studies show that community is the number one factor that determines how long people are going to live. And altruism is, as you'll hear, right at the core of community. So she's a wonderful guest.

BRENT: It's a really fascinating topic. Hope you enjoy.

BRENT: Nicole Karlis, welcome to the show.

NICOLE: Thank you, Brent, for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

BRENT: So you've written a book on altruism. Your Brain on Altruism is what it's called. I've been looking forward to diving into this topic. I think there are so many preconceived notions about what altruism is and how it helps or doesn't. So I'm very curious to purge all of those questions and get your perspective.

BRENT: But before we jump in, can you just give us your background?

NICOLE: Sure. I am a health and science journalist at Salon.com. I've written for other publications, including The New York Times, Marie Claire, and The Bold Italic. I studied journalism at the University of Iowa. I've done a health fellowship with the Association of Health Care Journalists in California. I'm a journalist, I follow my curiosity, and I really enjoy investigating topics in health that are really interesting to me.

BRENT: This is your first book, I believe. So what led you to say, "Okay, of all of the different topics I've written about, I'm going to go deep on altruism"?

NICOLE: It actually started about ten years ago. I was at a yoga retreat in India when the wellness industry was booming and on the rise. I went and saw an astrologer, and as we were talking, I told him I was anxious about returning back to my normal life.

NICOLE: And he wrote me a prescription for acts of kindness. That was the first time it occurred to me that acts of kindness, altruism, generosity, or caring—giving to others with the intention of giving and not receiving in return—can actually have health benefits. Returning to the States, there were things happening in 2016 and 2017.

NICOLE: In Napa in 2017, there were these extreme wildfires. I lived in San Francisco at the time, and everyone's instinct was to give, even if they weren't directly affected. Against the backdrop of this consumerist self-care movement, I found that contrast really interesting.

NICOLE: So I started to wonder why people come together wanting to give in times of crisis. Giving and altruism can be healing, but why do we not think of caring for others as something that could have health benefits? I started to look at the scientific research, and that eventually led me to publishing this book.

NICOLE: It was a topic I was so fascinated about, and I just couldn't let it go. I hadn't seen it investigated in the way that I wanted, so it turned into my book.

BRENT: And how do you define altruism? Because I come into this with the notion—which is probably wrong—that altruism is doing something that benefits somebody else without benefiting you. I've always felt that when we do something that benefits somebody else, it almost always benefits us as well.

BRENT: So maybe that isn't pure altruism, but I assume that's a common misconception. How do you think about the definition of altruism?

NICOLE: Different researchers have different definitions. In the book, from a literary perspective, I used the word altruism interchangeably with generosity, caring, and kindness, because I didn't want to get caught up in the specific technicalities. However you define it, it's giving with intention.

NICOLE: Your intention is really important: it's giving without expecting something in return. It's not an exchange of goods where you hope to receive something back. However, my book argues that you do get something in return by volunteering, performing random acts of kindness for strangers, or shifting your mindset.

NICOLE: I talk about shifting your mindset to see yourself as a steward for the planet who has purpose just by being you. So I don't cling to one single narrow definition, though I know psychologists debate it.

NICOLE: For the purpose of my book, it's giving and caring for others without expecting an immediate return or transaction.

BRENT: Yeah, and maybe it's just semantics. In my own experience, yesterday I went to a restaurant and saw an elderly man slowly shuffling toward the door. I slowed down and opened the door for him, knowing I could help.

BRENT: My primary intention was to help him, but I also knew I'd get something in return in terms of honoring how I want to show up in the world and feeling good about helping someone.

BRENT: Would you consider that "not expecting something in return"? I wasn't expecting anything from him, but I knew the exchange would benefit me emotionally.

BRENT: And that feeling isn't completely unrelated to why I held the door open.

NICOLE: When we talk about intention, it comes down to the "why." Did you enter that interaction just to feel good, or was your primary motivation to genuinely help someone? If it's the latter, that's where the greatest benefits lie.

NICOLE: There's no problem in knowing you will benefit or feel good afterward. Research shows people experience a "helper"s high" after helping others.

NICOLE: I interviewed a researcher asking whether knowing you'll feel good alters the outcome, and she said no. What's wrong with knowing you'll feel good after helping someone?

NICOLE: You go to a spa knowing you'll feel good, and that's fine. The key is that your primary intention was genuinely wanting to help that man hold the door.

BRENT: Right, my primary intention was to help him, and I would still do it even if nobody saw or I got no psychological benefit. Do you draw a distinction between that and something like virtue signaling?

BRENT: For example, someone giving money to the PTA primarily so they appear at the top of the donor list and look good to others. It's helpful, but their primary intention is status.

BRENT: How do you view the distinction when the act is identical but the intention is different?

NICOLE: Research shows that donating money doesn't yield the same health benefits as in-person volunteering or direct acts of kindness for strangers. You can still feel good making a donation, but in-person connection has far more value.

NICOLE: In-person interactions connect you to your community and require vulnerability. In my book, I discuss how altruism can act as a prescription for loneliness.

NICOLE: It gives you a sense of purpose, which researchers note as a key factor for a longer, healthier life. While monetary donations are helpful—such as providing funds after a wildfire when physical goods aren't needed—they differ from personal connection.

NICOLE: If you're giving to the PTA solely to receive praise, you won't experience the same psychological or physical benefits.

BRENT: Is this wired into us? Long-term studies like Harvard's Study of Adult Development highlight community as essential to longevity. What I'm hearing is that altruism helps weave us into the fabric of our community. Do you see altruism and community as deeply interconnected?

BRENT: But that altruism kind of gives us a sense of community and helping us weave ourselves into the fabric of, of the people around us is that do you think about these things as community and altruism, as is highly related?

NICOLE: Yes. In my chapter on the loneliness epidemic, I land on the idea that volunteering and finding purpose within your community is a more effective remedy for loneliness than simply joining social clubs.

NICOLE: Based on my interviews with psychologists and neuroscientists, volunteering offers a true sense of purpose. Regarding longevity, Dr. Eric Kim published a major study on the health benefits of volunteering.

NICOLE: He was at Harvard and is now at the University of British Columbia. His study compared people who volunteered regularly to those who didn't, finding that volunteers had fewer hospital visits and lived longer.

NICOLE: When I interviewed him in 2017, I asked if healthier people were simply more likely to volunteer, or if volunteering actively caused better health outcomes as people age.

NICOLE: At the time, he noted it was a chicken-and-egg question. Now, his research focuses on the importance of purpose for senior citizens and how it impacts longevity.

NICOLE: When I revisited this question with him while researching the book, I asked if healthier people were just the ones volunteering.

NICOLE: He said research over recent years shows that volunteering directly improves health and extends lifespan. That's profound. Finding a regular volunteer gig in your community is a great way to support healthy aging.

BRENT: So it's causal. It's not just that healthy people have more energy to volunteer; the act of volunteering itself drives longevity.

BRENT: How much of this is contextual awareness? If I volunteer at a soup kitchen, I'm helping people in need and connecting with my community, which creates value.

BRENT: But there's also a second layer: contextualizing my own life. I realize I have food security and am fortunate not to be in that position.

BRENT: It helps me appreciate what I have rather than comparing myself to neighbors who might have a bigger house.

BRENT: Do we know how much of the benefit comes from direct helping versus gaining perspective and gratitude?

NICOLE: Do you mean whether the benefits come from recognizing one's privilege or from the act of giving itself?

BRENT: Yes. Holding the door for that elderly man felt good because I eased his effort, but I also gained perspective on my own health and youth.

BRENT: I had a moment of gratitude for my functional body, which is distinct from the physical act of helping.

BRENT: It brought awareness to my own fortunate situation, which I might have overlooked moments earlier.

BRENT: Those two aspects feel distinct, even if they overlap.

NICOLE: The physical and longevity benefits stem from active engagement, connection, and purpose, which reduces loneliness later in life.

NICOLE: In your example, gratitude plays a big role. Neuroscientist Richard Davidson has researched how practicing gratitude calms the nervous system.

NICOLE: It lowers heart rate and reduces stress. Where was your mindset right before that interaction? If you were ruminating over a stressor...

NICOLE: ...that interaction pulled you out of your head. Shifting your mental focus provides physical relaxation and relief.

BRENT: I love helping people—it feels good. It's a life hack. I wish it weren't awkward to buy coffee for the person behind me, because it's the best $5 spent for the positive interaction it creates.

BRENT: It's like life arbitrage: a small effort yields immense positive feeling from making someone else feel good.

BRENT: Your point highlights awareness: noticing opportunities to help pulls you out of your head almost like meditation.

NICOLE: Research by Dr. Amit Kumar in Chicago found that people consistently underestimate how good a random act of kindness will make someone else feel.

NICOLE: That doubt holds people back. But when they measured the recipient's happiness, it was significantly higher than the giver anticipated.

NICOLE: Underestimating our positive impact makes us hesitant to perform simple acts of kindness regularly.

BRENT: I remember being 19 on an airplane, starving in the last row. They were selling cheeseburgers for $5, but I opened my wallet and had no money.

BRENT: The man next to me saw and paid for my cheeseburger. I will never forget that kindness.

BRENT: I was starving and felt so seen and grateful. He brushed it off like it was no big deal, but it stayed with me.

BRENT: Sometimes there's social awkwardness in offering help. On flights, I want to help put bags in the overhead bins, but I worry about unintentionally implying someone isn't strong enough.

BRENT: I'm tall and just trying to be helpful, but social dynamics can complicate simple acts. How do you navigate that awkwardness?

BRENT: So how do you think about breaking through, maybe some of that awkwardness?

NICOLE: That connects to Dr. Kumar's research on overcoming internal hesitation. Recognize the social anxiety, but offer help anyway.

NICOLE: As Brené Brown says, put yourself out there with vulnerability. What's the worst that happens? Someone says no, and that's fine. Internal hesitation is a barrier, and not every interaction will go perfectly.

NICOLE: While writing the book, I kept a journal of my acts of kindness. During the pandemic, I volunteered to grocery shop for a vulnerable neighbor, but I bought the wrong items.

NICOLE: I didn't realize she needed specific brands. When I delivered them expecting gratitude, she was disappointed that the items were wrong.

NICOLE: I felt frustrated initially, but then I reflected on how that moment fit into my research.

NICOLE: You accept that things won't always go as planned, but you still derived community connection and purpose by stepping up during COVID-19.

NICOLE: You might face rejection or make mistakes, but the broader health and psychological benefits of showing up remain.

BRENT: Right, you can act with good intentions even if the recipient doesn't appreciate it. Is there a difference in health benefits between staff who work at a non-profit for a salary versus unpaid volunteers?

BRENT: The direct or of the soup kitchen who is on salary and is working there as a job.

NICOLE: Occupational factors like long hours introduce caregiver burnout. In my book, I emphasize that doctors can't simply prescribe volunteering as a silver bullet, because life circumstances vary.

NICOLE: People cycle through three phases: seasons of giving, seasons of receiving, and seasons of witnessing. You benefit from all three throughout your life.

NICOLE: You don't always have the bandwidth or resources to give. Caregiver burnout is a serious issue for people balancing aging parents and young children.

NICOLE: Dr. Michael Amster developed "The AWE Method" to help caregivers pause amidst noise and find micro-moments of awe and relief.

NICOLE: As a mother of a toddler and newborn, I give constantly and feel overwhelmed at times. Pausing for micro-moments of awe helps you catch your breath and reset.

NICOLE: I'm like really tired and overwhelmed a lot of the time. But if you can, I can have that moment, you know, where it's like I experience, that is a moment where you can kind of, you know, experience like that benefit and that kind of relief and exhale.

BRENT: Balance is key. If you give without self-care, it leads to burnout. Taking care of ourselves enables us to care for others.

BRENT: How do you recognize when you're giving too much or doing it out of obligation rather than genuine goodwill?

BRENT: Where is the line between healthy giving and overextending yourself?

NICOLE: I frame altruism as a form of self-care. Caring for others is self-care, which contrasts with standard consumerist models.

NICOLE: Pay attention when volunteering causes stress rather than fulfillment. If a commitment on your calendar feels overwhelming, honor your current season.

NICOLE: Identify whether you are in a season of giving, receiving, or witnessing. My book advocates for a broader "culture of caring."

NICOLE: Care should exist within our systems and workplaces, not just on individuals. Sociologists note that communities experience temporary solidarity during disasters, but that unity eventually fades.

NICOLE: When society operates on scarcity, long-term unity is difficult. A culture of caring means offering paid sick leave and supportive environments in workplaces.

NICOLE: Cultivating care in our respective spheres creates better social structures for everyone.

BRENT: How do you view misapplied altruism or performative posturing? Rob Henderson discusses "luxury beliefs," where well-meaning positions don't align with practical realities for affected communities.

BRENT: And then you go to a bad neighborhood and they're like, no, no, no, we need the police. And so the intention maybe of the person in that case is like, hey, it feels like police brutality is an issue. And so I want to support this cause. Their intention is good, but I don't mean to be political with this specific scenario is a bunch of examples of of luxury beliefs.

BRENT: Good intentions can sometimes carry condescension if they ignore the perspectives of the people they aim to help.

BRENT: How do you think about those?

NICOLE: Active listening builds genuine empathy. I spoke with researchers advocating for teaching active listening without immediate judgment from an early age.

NICOLE: Harvard researchers are introducing listening exercises in elementary schools. Society would benefit greatly if we were trained to be better listeners.

NICOLE: So I don't know if that fully answers your question, but I also don't know if, like specifically in your example, you're talking about altruism. I mean, someone yeah, maybe put like a sign, I guess, on their lawn with the intent to I don't know if that's really like helping other. It's not by putting a sign on your lawn with that your example.

BRENT: Active listening bridges gaps in our polarized climate. Listening to differing perspectives helps us understand needs more accurately.

BRENT: Sometimes helping efforts miss the mark without open dialogue. People can come across as condescending when they presume to know best.

BRENT: I see this with my siblings—trying to help can sometimes be received as arrogant rather than supportive.

NICOLE: Listening without reactivity is essential. Volunteering connects us to diverse people in our community.

NICOLE: Ask people directly: "How can I best support you? What do you actually need?"

BRENT: We can't live in fear of making mistakes. What simple habits can we integrate into daily life without scheduling hours of volunteering?

BRENT: And we all could be doing more of it, and some of us do a little bit. What are the little hacks here? What are maybe things that you do in your day to day life? Not the like setting the hours aside for volunteering that you didn't do before starting this research?

NICOLE: Research shows that doing three small acts of kindness two days a week is more effective than forcing one act every single day, avoiding routine fatigue.

NICOLE: Embrace an ethos of care. In my book, I recount visiting Hawaii and learning about the "Malama mindset"—seeing yourself as a steward of your environment and community.

NICOLE: You don't need grand gestures. Simply showing up generously with your energy contributes positively to the world.

NICOLE: Respect your current season—giving, receiving, or witnessing. Don't force giving when depleted.

BRENT: Congratulations on the book release! Balancing a newborn and a toddler while releasing a book is incredible. How did you manage?

NICOLE: I signed the book deal four months postpartum and felt overwhelmed. I took three months of unpaid leave from work to focus on writing.

NICOLE: I worked late evenings and weekends. It was challenging, but I was deeply committed to bringing this work to life.

NICOLE: Writing it was immensely rewarding, making the dedicated time completely worthwhile.

BRENT: Holding the physical book after all that work must feel amazing. Writing a book during early parenthood is a massive feat.

BRENT: It's an act of altruism in itself, sharing research to help others. Thank you for your work.

BRENT: Keeping an eye out for ways to help truly enriches life.

NICOLE: Yeah, well, thank you for having me and for asking me such good questions. And yeah, I thought this was a really fun conversation.

BRENT: Where can listeners find you and your book?

NICOLE: You can find it on Bookshop.org, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and at local bookstores.

BRENT: Awesome. Nicole Karlis, thank you so much for joining us.

NICOLE: Thank you, Brent.

BRENT: Death Clock is recorded in Boulder, Colorado, and San Francisco, California. Produced by Patrick Andino, music by Patrick Lee, and hosted by Brent.